Well, that’s not my sentence but his. I won’t go through the Adobe business model, but rather to the Flash Lite content. The most selling content in mobile is content to personalize your mobile phone. This is true especially outside US. The mobile phone is very personal object.
So the criticism about Flash Lite just doing animation is not taking into account that in Japan the Flash Lite ecosystem is build around 1.0 and 1.1 version of the player and that these versions have limitations.
Now with Flash Lite 2.x you can do a lot of things and the type of content that developers are creating is very interesting. We all know that Flash Lite has limited capabilities compared to J2ME, C++ and other mobile technologies, but no one is saying Flash Lite can compete with J2ME for example, at least at this time.
In any case if you ask any mobile developer about their opinion of Flash Lite, the answer is always of interest in the technology given it’s limitation. Running on multiple platforms is main reason of interest.
I have created Flash Lite multimedia applications running on Symbian, Brew and Windows Mobile 5 without any code change. I always get the question: What do you mean? You did not change anything? No other technology has reached this stage, which is the compelling factor to developers of other platforms.
Another aspect is about Flash Lite developers which need to understand very well that they are developing for mobile devices which a very different world compare to the web.
Constructive opinions are welcome!
Alessandro
Thanks for the word… I left a comment there, let’s see if it makes it out of the moderation queue….
(Congrats on the Barcelona trip, btw, I was happy to hear that.)
jd/adobe
Ciao John,
I will try to blog, post pictures and videos as much as possible from 3GSM.
I will attend the Adobe events and others.
Alessandro
It is definitely my opinion that the gentleman who posted the original blog entry has no technology to offer the world (himself) so he needs to find the top dog and try to point the finger at them.
If this guy has a copy of Photoshop, Illustrator, or Flash, He is a hypocrit!! Furthermore, programming for a phone is nothing like programming for any other PC or “hi-end” device, there are huge limitations in memory, and performance. As far as I am concerned, if we can port our Flash Lite content over ANY os, without a single change in code, I think we have a one-up on J2ME, C++, or any other mobile technology.
THat is the CRUD we are churning out today. BOOYEAH Gramma!!
Bow Archer
Senior Flash Developer
MDBU – Adobe (Bitch).
Uhm… I don’t think the guy meant to say that FlashLite is a crappy technology, he was probably referring to the vast majority of FL content available today, even in Japan; while I don’t completely agree with him, certainly I still have to see anything cutting edge made with FlashLite.
However even on the technology side, I still don’t believe it is all bells & whistles, the WORA things is a pure myth again, Adobe recommend the usage of bitmaps OVER vector for speed (and quality) but the bitmap scaler inside FL is a simple stretcher and is incapable of blurring the scaled bitmap, the result is just bigger ugly pixels, so when you want your content to run on different screen sizes and orientations, you have to supply all the possible bitmaps configurations otherwise the content will look crappy (just look at Mobizines, conceived for a 176 x 208 screen when run on any other screen size, the content looks ugly).
Another big handicap is the fragmentation introduced by different version of the players so indeed you have to produce different content for different versions with two different AS and the situation will get worse with more versions of FL out. Although users can download newer versions (after registering with Adobe), the new installed version will not become the default one and leave the user in the mist on how to play newer content.
Adobe talks a lot about ecosystems (it has been their buzzword for the past three years) assuming that the user is already inside of it (i.e.: FlashLite) but they completely skip how to get people to it (launching the right content with the right player for example and support different versions on the same handset or make it possible to upgrade).
Just my 2 cents.
BR,
Stephan
Hey Stephan,
You mentioned “two different AS” to code when porting FL applications… Well, stop being a lazy boy and code using FL 1.1, this way you won´t mind which FL player version it will be running.
Alright, removing the snide comment (sorry brady) on behalf of Adobe. But seriously, ActionScript even in its most advanced version (AS3) is just a baby compared to Java, C++ and the like. Why waste time talking about what you dont like about FlashLite, and spend time making solutions to improve it. Or: Build your own technology to surpass it (if your up to the challenge). Or, like Luciano says, quit being lazy and find a livable solution to the problem!!
I’m not lazy at all, in fact I skip AS completely and code in C++. FlashLite is good for the “chrome” (another Adobe favourite buzzword) and to present prototypes; you just can’t beat FL at presentation and demo level, unfortunately when it is time to deliver the real working flawless solution, you have to drop FL, it just can’t be mantained and supported. I’m not trying to convince any fanboy here, I know far too well how certain people stick to religions, but when you are in the field to deliver solution (real ones…) you know that “chrome” is not enough. Anybody who has sold a solution to a telcom know this far too well. The only extremely positive opinions I keep hearing about FL are just coming out from Adobe and their fanboys, the rest is just wtahcing and very little uninterested.
Also, it is not a solution to code in AS1.1 just to be “universal”, you may want to use the better features of FL2.x and with non upgradeable players it is a big problem. Even if AS1.1 is enough, still somebody has to reply on the scaling of bitmapa and how to address different screen resolutions and orientations.
I also suggest to watch this http://www.tricastmedia.com/blog/?cat=4 to understand that FL “chrome” is in reach even using J2ME
BR,
Stephan
Ciao
here there are no “fanboy”, so please stop to use that word on my blog.
Can you post a link to applications that you develop?
Thanks
Alessandro
Hi Alex, I’m sorry if the term “fanboy” disturbed you, but according to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboy I’m not completely wrong, considering that everytime I try to point out problems with FL, the business model and other bits and pieces related to it, I get “fanboish” style answers or been accused of being lazy. At the same time I see the same people congratulating to Adobe for whetever award of the week they get and fanatical promoting of FL without beign objective at all, of course I’m not refering to you. Regarding my applications I don’t have pointers on the net as I work for companies and not end users directly, but trust me when I say that I deal with mobile development everyday and yes I use Flash too, when it is the case.
BR,
Stephan
Ciao Stephan,
couple of things. The issue of upgrade of FL does not exists. As for other technologies you need to deal with what the mobile phones come with. For example Nokia has the different versions of the Symbian core on different phones as well as Java MIDP. I mean you do not upgrade the MIDP2 to next version by downloading it. You need to wait for the manufacturer to integrate that version in future phones. Even firmware does not contain new version but just fixes or small improvements. So I see this to be applied to FL player too. Those who think they just can download the newer player are used to the web environment which does not apply to the mobile. Here some learning need to be done by FL developers.
Also when I talk about mobile content/application I see the environment as this: a user with the mobile phone no computer in the middle. In this type of environment the mobile phone user does not need to know which phone/resolution and so on he/she has. There are ways for the developer/company to abstract this issue from the user. I am sure you know this.
The FL2.1, 2.0 and 1.1 players available through Adobe were/are for developers not for the mass markets. My opinion. So the issue of distribution of FL2.1 or 2.0 content does not stand until there are enough phones out there. Same as other technologies. I think Luciano’s comment was in this direction and be assure he is not a “fanboy”!
About C++/J2ME versus FL, I totally agree, no comparison and if anyone wants to go to market, J2ME is the best choice since it reached the most number of phones or if you want to target a specific platform you go with the native technology.
In any case looking at few issues, FL has some advantages. The different screen size/resolution can be address by just creating different layouts which actually is common to other technologies. Display assets in portrait or landscape may make sense in one but not the other. FL 2.x offer the API to work out some issues. So given the limitation I think it’s a pretty cool environment to developer for.
Alessandro
“I’m sorry if the term ‘fanboy’ disturbed you…”
Well, it’s sexist, and even if you said “fanboy/fangirl” that would still be ageist, and even then you’d be ignoring the concerns of transgender individuals. Are you sure you wouldn’t wish to reconsider those words…?
I tred up2U, that may help you change the view ! ( I like it personally )
John Dowdell Says:
“Well, it’s sexist, and even if you said “fanboy/fangirl†that would still be ageist, and even then you’d be ignoring the concerns of transgender individuals. Are you sure you wouldn’t wish to reconsider those words…?”
I apologized already with who felt disturbed by the usage of the word but I also explained the meaning I gave to it originally. I see you are very good at picking things (wrongly) between the lines but I also see you didn’t answered to any of the problems exposed about the FL…. ah sorry, you’re from Adobe
think another way Says:
“I tred up2U, that may help you change the view ! ( I like it personally ) ”
That actually reinforced the vision on how flawed the whole FL platform is especially at delivering:
1) Need of making several versions for different players (but maybe they are lazy like me); just look at the list of phones you have to pick up from. Sure they are only two groups to support, but still not “same app that runs everywhere” as somebody is trying to say here.
2) User need to download players before. Vast majority of users know they got a Nokia, maybe the model number, no idea of what is inside especially concerning their version. Look at RealVideo, it just workls, no fiddling with versions. Adobe should have waited until the product was mature enough instead of rushing out.
3) You seriously expect mobile users to unzip and copy to a specific folder on the phone the files of an application???? Where is the launching icon? User need to copy exclusively to the “Other” or “Medi”a folders otherwise the player is unable to find the application.
4) How can the user identify the player version he/she needs to launch if both appear with the same icon and the same name (Flash), when you have 1.1 and 2.1 installed?
5) If the user is so brave to launch the SWF file directly using File Explorer, 1.1 is launched and instead of giving a helpfull message like “The file you’re trying to open requires a more recent version fo FlashLite” it tells you “File Corrupted”, a bit like Windows when it complains about “An unspecified error”
If the user survive to all of this, it is pleased with a 5 second useless unskippable animation from flash that has to play its logo, then the “app” plays its own as well and then you are pleased with two dialogs all the time, one asking for permission to use network connection and the other to read my device IMEI. Unfortunately the app fails to disclose the usage.
Think mobile, seriously…..
BR,
Steph
Dear Steph,
Thank you very much for your anlaysis on the flash-lite limitations, YES you are quite right on several points.
In fact back to the bottom, there are so many problems in the mobile.
1. there are so many handsets ( or handset manufacturers in themarket ) they are not using same way to run their phone, some are using WM, some symbian, some J2ME, linux,…some close system…..
(I believe there is noboby`s fault to protect or creat a sector of their technology)
I assume you are senior developer or at leaset you are very good in the mobile environment. you do know this problem will not be solved,
AS you tring to express the user friendlyness is important, YA, which manufature really complete the mission? Who dare to say that!
For flash-lite developers, it does not go easy as well,
flash-lite 1.1, 2.0, 2.1….every version have their own problem
flash-lite 1.1 ( developers must learn from flash 4, and many limitation , )
flash-lite 2.0 ( I believe it is the best version, but can not buy from several region )
flash-lite 2.1 ( free but rather a container than a player compare to 2.0)
what is problem? That is ADOBE`s job?
For those people like us, have deep in LOVE with flash, NOT the BIG company, We love flash so deep that we willing to sovle the problems not simplely follow the GUIDE what ADOBE teach ( in fact there are so many lies inside the guide )
I am happy that you point out all the pros and cons of flash-lite, Saddly to say, that is the limitation, BIG company really care is their benefits
What is really happening to those who LOVE flash? some participate as SOHO, some slowly gave up!
We do not want to give up that way, we choose to face the challenges back to the problems you try to say!
THE 2 main key issue to make a mobile world enrich!
1. end-users > endusers must be happy to have rich contents, not everything embeded with no expandsion! All kinds of data can be reach, also must have fun, also must be new.
2. developers > all the content developers DO need business model to surive, selling content by content may be easy way, BUT does end-user really affort to spend all the money on that? ( HOW many games one really buy? I believe that many people always find a way to get FREE contents, JAVA games, flash games……etc! ) these will not really help developers to surive!
We think in-order to get balance for the both side, it is important for end-users to have fun all the time, and developers can find a way to see the money flow!
SO, we spend 2nd years building “up2U” , it is basically a service which allows every one to decide where the mobile shall go, ” users play & contributors get pay”
For content developers/contributors they can publish their work to all members in 5 min, ( no need to make sis or convert WMV to 3GP. MP3 to streaming….) everything done by the up2U system, all latest contents can be seem and developers can see their content click by the users.also from their expose, developers also can get oppertunity (maybe coca-cola or pepsi like your content and sponsor your work oneday ) I guess those BIG company will not doing for developers, ( so far I always see that developers selling their contents via web or if they get lucky they sell through one or two operators. up2U is base on mobile internet so there is no boundry (beside CHINA, where have IP restriction by the govenment )
Which means developers can reach the world more easily.
For end-users, up2U will only deliver the latest publish, new contents always on top! So it will have new experience for end-user to play along in all times.
For installstion:
Even i-phone needs an i-tune, (I guess a little trouble of installation shall be forgiven base on the limitation of flash-lite 2.1, if you have N70 & flash-lite 2.0, you need to only install the up2U sis. that is quicker. I am sorry that we are not ADOBE, we are not allow to modify their player! )
For differenciate defferent version:
Thank you! It is very nice of you to point that out!
I promise we will try our best to modify our FAQ & GUIDE shortly!
For the network connection & IMEI
It is necessarry to let user know that up2U is a mobile internet service!
Also for the IMEI, it is important that we need to runs the data for all contributor knows their contain hitrate,
( if we run it at back ground, we have no different as a thief, all user do have the right to know )
up2U may not be the best solution of all, we are not a GIANT company also,
BUT WE CARE! & we will try our best to improve!
( an up2U supportor send me a mail & strongly suggesting me to write a feedback here)
Once again, I must thank you for all the analysis!
Here I would like to take the oppertunity to invite all the greatest groundbreakers to join ( http://www.uptoyoo.com )and lets built the mobile services together! It`s all UP TO YOU!